In 1979, iconic liberal television host Phil Donahue criticized capitalism in a debate with legendary free-market economist Milton Friedman – but, without screaming, character assassination or name-calling.
When Donahue tried to blame capitalism for poverty and “the maldistribution of wealth,” Friedman noted that capitalism and free enterprise have helped the poor and the average citizen more than any other system in the history of mankind.
Donahue also disparaged what he deemed to be the “greed” of capitalism, telling Friedman that “it seems to reward not virtue as much as it does the ability to manipulate the system.”
“The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests,“ Friedman explained:
“The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein did not construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford did not revolutionize the automobile industry that way.
“The only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about – the only cases in recorded history – are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade.”
“If you want to know where the masses are worst off, it’s exactly from the kinds of societies that depart from that,” Friedman added:
“So, that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear: that there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system.”
"But, it seems to reward, not virtue, as much as the ability to manipulate the system," Donahue countered.
"And what does reward virtue?" Friedman responded:
"You think the communist commisar rewards virtue? You think a Hitler rewards virtue? You think…American presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed or on the basis of their political clout?
“Is it really true that political self-interest is nobler, somehow, than economic self-interest?”
“Just tell where in the world you find these angels who are going to organize society for us,” Friedman challenged Donahue.
“Well, I don’t even trust you to do that,” Friedman joked.
Editor's Note: Phil Donahue died on Tuesday, August 19, 2024. Friedman died November 16, 2006.